Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from hogtown.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Wed, 8 May 91 01:55:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Precedence: junk Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Wed, 8 May 91 01:55:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SPACE Digest V13 #503 SPACE Digest Volume 13 : Issue 503 Today's Topics: Re: Saturn V and Design Reuse: Saturn VI? (RBB: Real Big Booster) Re: Saturn V vs. ALS Re: Galileo Update On CNN atmosphere probe question Re: Hypersonic Transport Terraforming Venus IT'S OVER Hypersonic Transport International Civil Space Agency by 93 Re: GIF viewer Re: Terraforming Venus? Administrivia: Submissions to the SPACE Digest/sci.space should be mailed to space+@andrew.cmu.edu. Other mail, esp. [un]subscription requests, should be sent to space-request+@andrew.cmu.edu, or, if urgent, to tm2b+@andrew.cmu.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 2 May 91 18:34:24 GMT From: mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!en.ecn.purdue.edu!irvine@purdue.edu (/dev/null) Subject: Re: Saturn V and Design Reuse: Saturn VI? (RBB: Real Big Booster) In article <1991May2.162159.3998@zoo.toronto.edu>, henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: > In article <1991May2.135503.24999@en.ecn.purdue.edu> irvine@en.ecn.purdue.edu (/dev/null) writes: > >Legally, people are trying to reduce emissions on cars. On rockets > >there are no restrictions. Maybe start putting restrictions on > >emissions of launchers? > > Again, why are launchers such a special case? Their contribution to total > emissions is insignificant; why are we proposing restrictions on them? If > we must, why are we proposing restrictions on hydrocarbon-fueled launchers, > which are among the cleanest of the lot? (The shuttle, for example, is > very dirty by comparison; the hydrogen-fueled SSMEs don't make up for those > filthy SRBs.) Just to be devil's advocate: Then why not limit the emissions on SRBs. (Or outlaw?) Just because its out there, doesn't make it 'right.' I personally don't care much about this issue because its silly to me. To a lot of people, however, it is serious. > > >After all, they do launch in the wetlands AND spew half burnt > >hydrocarbons and other exhaust all over. > > For a few seconds right at the start. Yes, for just a few seconds. Right now it might seem stupid when compared with 'whats out there,' but legislators may (rightly or wrongly - I don't know) try to 'zero out' or close to zero out emissions of this kind. Pressure may come to bear on the fact that in those few seconds after ignition, there are X tons of hydrocarbons dumped into the wetlands. It might do harm, it might not, who knows? I don't. -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Society of Philosophers, Luminaries, | Brent L. Irvine | | and Other Professional Thinking People..... | Only my own ramblings | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 2 May 91 21:24:24 GMT From: pasteur!agate!bionet!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!samsung!rex!rouge!dlbres10@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Fraering Philip) Subject: Re: Saturn V vs. ALS In article <21653@crg5.UUCP> szabo@crg5.UUCP (Nick Szabo) writes: >At this point, sharing probably only makes sense >for some GEO-bound satellites and microsatellites systems with multiple >spacecraft per plane (eg Iridium). Or for a 'probe bus' hauling probes to earth escape velocity. Of course, that would simply give another excuse to make launch failures a order of magnitude more catastrophic than they are today. I mean, when the seven or eight satellites sharing the 150,000 lb. booster are destroyed, it could really damage the whole industry. -- Phil Fraering dlbres10@pc.usl.edu Joke going around: "How many country music singers does it take to change a light bulb? Four. One to change the bulb, and three to sing about the old one." ------------------------------ Date: 3 May 91 20:37:21 GMT From: att!cbfsb!cbnewsb.cb.att.com!wa2ise@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (robert.f.casey) Subject: Re: Galileo Update On CNN atmosphere probe question I saw part of this news report, too. There was mention that if they can't get the antenna fixed, there will be no nice pictures. But they can still do the atmosphere probe. Are there cameras on this probe (didn't think so)? Data rate on the probe must be fairly low, then, if the antenna problem won't get in the way. Will NASA "hear" the atmosphere probe directly from Jupiter without being relayed thru Galileo? =========================================================================== Question: Do you have to be a rocket scientist to design a rocket? :-) ------------------------------ Date: 1 May 91 15:40:55 GMT From: agate!bionet!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Henry Spencer) Subject: Re: Hypersonic Transport In article lc2b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Lawrence Curcio) writes: >lecturer who mentions hypersonic transport. We are told that the supersonic >phase is to be skipped altogether, and the next stage of travel is >via space. No two points on the globe more than a couple of hours away, >and all that... ...have I been treated to Science Fiction Theater? Pretty much so. Both the airlines and the aircraft manufacturers have concluded that hypersonic speeds do not appear to be worthwhile at present. Not that the higher speed would not be useful, but the problems and costs are out of proportion to the benefits. Problems include things like new fuel storage systems, radically revamped air-traffic control, special gate facilities for still-hot aircraft, etc., quite apart from the costs of the aircraft itself. There is active research on supersonics, up to circa Mach 4, but nobody is taking hypersonic or ballistic airliners very seriously right now. -- And the bean-counter replied, | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology "beans are more important". | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Date: 1 May 91 17:38:13 GMT From: snorkelwacker.mit.edu!think.com!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!en.ecn.purdue.edu!irvine@bloom-beacon.mit.edu (/dev/null) Subject: Terraforming Venus I think Venus might be a bit easier to Terraform than Mars. With Mars, you have to find a way to add air pressure, with Venus, you have to find a way to decrease it (never minding the fact that both are poisonous right now ... :) ) This could be an opportunity to try out bio-technology. Send a group of microbes that "eat" sulphur in sulphuric acid, cleaning the air. I know that there are lots of toxins other than H2SO4, but similar approaches could be used. Mars may be much more tough than Venus. -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Society of Philosophers, Luminaries, | Brent L. Irvine | | and Other Professional Thinking People..... | Only my own ramblings | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 May 91 08:14:17 EDT From: "Charles J. Divine" Title: Political action The situation: The Department of Energy is getting interested in space. They have some technologies (e.g., space nuclear power) that look important to our future in space. They also have a need of their own: military appro- priations are declining with the demise of the cold war. Much DOE work (e.g., nuclear weapons) is military related. Hence, to keep their people employed and their budget up, they are looking for new work. This, BTW, was all reported in the Washington Post a few days ago. So this alert, while perhaps surprising to some in the space community, will not be to those living within the Beltway. Currently the Energy and Water Development subcommittee (they oversee DOE) of the House is considering the DOE budget for next year. The space activist phone tree is asking people to contact committee members by the close of business Tuesday, May 7th and support full funding for the Space Exploration Initiative (SEI) in DOE's budget. We ask every one in the country to contact the chair of the committee. For people who have representives on the committee from their state, we are them to contact those people as well. The committee consists of: Phone extension (all numbers begin (202)225) Tom Bevill, Alabama -- Chair 4876 Vic Fazio, California 5716 Lindsay Thomas, Georgia 5831 Jim Chapman, Texas 3035 Bernard Dwyer, New Jersey 6301 John Myers, Indiana 5805 Carl Pursell, Michigan 4401 Dean Gallo, New Jersey 5034 Thanks for your help. ------------------------------ Date: 04 MAY 91 19:54:10 CDT From: MICHAEL DAVID WARREN Subject: IT'S OVER STAR TREK THE NEXT GENERATION WILL BE CANCELLED AFTER THE 1991-92 SEASON. IT IS OFFICIAL FROM THE PRODUCERS OF THE SHOW. I AM SO GLAD, THAT HAS TO GO DOWN IN THE ANNALS OF HISTORY AS ONE OF THE WORST RATED SHOWS OF ALL TIME NEXT TO THE 1988 DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION. GOODBYE STTNG, YOU WILL NOT BE MISSED MICHAEL DAVID WARREN ------------------------------ Date: 1 May 91 01:40:05 GMT From: lc2b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Lawrence Curcio) Subject: Hypersonic Transport I'm a grad student at a policy school, and I don't read this group regularly so forgive me if this is old stuff. Anyway, occasionally we get a guest lecturer who mentions hypersonic transport. We are told that the supersonic phase is to be skipped altogether, and the next stage of travel is via space. No two points on the globe more than a couple of hours away, and all that. The last person, a prof from UNC, asserted that this was to be a spinoff of shuttle technology. Now I don't want to be a wet blanket or anything, but it seems to me that the shuttle is an example of a technology that has grown well past its practical scale. So what's the scoop, folks? Is this stuff on the horizon or have I been treated to Science Fiction Theater? Thanks, -Larry C. ------------------------------ Date: 1 May 91 05:26:09 GMT From: vax5.cit.cornell.edu!usf@cu-arpa.cs.cornell.edu Subject: International Civil Space Agency by 93 ************************************************************************************** AN ITERNATIONAL ( MULTINATIONAL ) CIVIL SPACE AGENCY BY 1993 An Idea Whose Time Has Come! UNITED SPACE FEDERATION, INC. International Dispatch: April 30th 1991 ********************************************************************************* Organization back ground information: * - Organization was founded in 1986 Virginia Beach, VA. ( USA ) * - Organization was Incorporated in 1990 as a Not-For-Profit Corporation in Ithaca, N.Y. ( USA ) * - Organizations purpose and mission is to create and set up an International Civil Space Agency by 1993. * - Organizational activities sence 1989: * Application to the United Nations for NGO status ( October 1989 ) * Low leval contact with Embassies of Countries with major activities in space exploration, research, and utilization. ( starting October 1989 ) ( All responces were positive and supportive to some degree ) * Contact with Embassies was discontinued in 1990 as a resault of the IRAQI conflict in order to avoid misunderstandings from US government, but contact will resume as of May 1991. * Lecture given by Organizations founder at Cornell University sponcered by the Cornell Hong Kong Students Group. ( November 1989 ) * Meeting with President Frank H.T. Rhoads of Cornell University (Oct 1991) * Meetings with other administrators at Cornell as a resault of the meeting with Presedent Rhoads. ( October & September 1989 ) * Organization begins to produce and cablecast a 15 to 30 minute nightly NewsCast ( Federation Update ) dealing with news specificly related with space exploration, science and technology, from a international perspective. ( 10 Nations space agencies cooperated by sending information and video materials to be used on the programing ) The NewsCasts were also used as a media vehicle from to inform and educate the general public about the USF's activities to form an international space agency. ( October 1989 programing began ) * Organization exspands its cablecasting to include a new program which was intended to provide educational T.V. programing on a weekly basis. The show ( New Horizons ) was 30 min or an hour in length and alternated between talk show format, with guests form science and technology fields, and documentary format provided from outside sources. ( November 1989 ) * Organization is presently sending letters to all US Congressman and Senators requesting thier support for this endeavor. ( April 1991 ) * Organization is now in a fund raising campain to raise 2 million dollars in the next 6 to 8 months. ( March 1991 ) * Organization granted computer accounts at Cornell University on the Cornell A and VAX5 operating systems under the electronic address USF. ( April 1991 ) These are the full electornic mail address's for the USF: 1) BITNET - USF@CRNLVAX5 2) BITNET - USF@CORNELLA 3) INTERNET - USF@CORNELLA.CIT.CORNELL.EDU 4) VAX - USF@VAX5.CIT.CORNELL.EDU * Due to the very large amount of replys, we ask that all responces be made to the below address in writing. The USF will be making regular updates and notices in this section. Reply's by E-Mail are welcome but because our personel resources are limited at present all E-Mail responces may not be directly replied to by us, although we will make an effort to include reply's to simular questions by large numbers of members of this news net in our regular updates in this section. * For further information about this organization and its present activities to create an International Space Agency by 1993. Send a Donation of $5.00 in the form of a personal check or cashies check only, made out to: UNITED SPACE FEDERATION, INC., and send it to the following address: UNITED SPACE FEDERATION, Inc. International Headquarters P.O. Box 4722 Ithaca, New York 14852-4722 In the United States of America Thank You for your time and support, Godspeed! Sincerely, Rick R. Dobson Founder and Executive Director United Space Federation,Inc. ------------------------------ Date: 2 May 91 03:55:42 GMT From: mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!acsls@apple.com (Eddie McCreary) Subject: Re: GIF viewer In article <91121.174038GWS102@psuvm.psu.edu> writes: >Does anyone know where I can get a GIF viewer for a MAC, IBM, and/or UNIX works >tation. Information on any of these computer formates would be appreciated. > > Glenn Szydlowski Check in the archives at wuarchive.wustl.edu under /mirrors/msdos/gif. The best one is probably cshow which is put out by Compuserve, the people who developed the GIF standard. They may have viewers for the other machines in other directories, it's enormous. -- Eddie McCreary |In the midst of the word he was trying to say, EMcCreary@uh.edu, Internet|In the midst of his laughter and glee, EMcCreary@UHOU, BITNET |He had softly and suddenly vanished away-- University of Houston |For the Snark _was_ a Boojum you see. ------------------------------ Date: 2 May 91 17:37:05 GMT From: wuarchive!rex!rouge!dlbres10@decwrl.dec.com (Fraering Philip) Subject: Re: Terraforming Venus? In article <1991May2.164843.22805@cadence.com> jonmon@cadence.com (Jon Monsarrat x6227) writes: >Wait, do Jupiter's moons (like Ganymede) have enough gravity >to support an atmosphere even if supplied with impacted comets? Well, they have an ice surface already, do they need the comets? After all, everyone says they'd supply Venus with water from the Jovian satellites. And Ganymede has the same diameter as Mars. I don't have the surface gravity on hand. -- Phil Fraering dlbres10@pc.usl.edu Joke going around: "How many country music singers does it take to change a light bulb? Four. One to change the bulb, and three to sing about the old one." ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V13 #503 *******************